Achieving Your Dream Retirement - And Not Just Financially

What does your dream retirement look like?

For Bill and Donna Elliot, it was an once-in-a-lifetime trip in a motorhome… a voyage that had them zigzagging across the U.S. full-time for two years and 24,000 miles.

Bill, a retired architect, and Donna, who had worked in the legal field, were ready for a break after long successful careers. And they had a lot on their bucket list, like a NASCAR race in Indianapolis, Niagara Falls, Frank Lloyd Wright homes, and a baseball game in Pittsburgh.

They explain how they prepped for the trip… but also how they were able financially to make it work.

Listen in to find out…

  • Tips for transitioning from work to retirement

  • The role of an advisor in organizing your finances

  • Why now is the time to indulge in something you’ve always dreamed of

  • How to untangle yourself from your old day-to-day routine

  • And more…

Listen now…

 Transcript:

John: This is John Curry. I’m sitting here today with April Schoen and a wonderful couple named Bill and Donna Elliott. In these podcasts, we’ve been working on the concept not just of financial planning for retirement but also other issues, such as healthcare, what you do with your time, recreation, travel, and Bill and Donna Elliott have done a fantastic job of making the transition from careers to truly enjoying retirement. And today, they’re willing to share their stories of what they’ve done and, in particular, what’s fascinating is that they bought a motor home and, I think, what? Two years, Bill? Donna? Was it two years’ travel?

Bill: Two years.

Donna: Um-hum.

John: Fantastic story, but first, I just want to thank you for joining us today and being willing to share your story. And, if you would, Donna, would you start? Tell our audience a little bit about who you are, what kind of work you did before you retired, and then, Bill, we’ll have you do the same.

Donna: Okay. I started out in the architectural field, writing specs. That’s how I met my husband, and then I moved into the legal field. I was a paralegal for a while, did independent contracting work while our daughter was growing up and on swim teams and had to be toted back and forth, and then I went to work for a single practitioner and did his books part time. So, I’d say the greater part of my career has been in the legal field.

John: Very good. Bill?

Bill: Okay, well, I was with the firm Elliott Marshall Innes, which now goes by EMI, located here in Tallahassee for almost 40 years. We did such things as the College of Medicine at FSU, Psychology Building at FSU, Life Sciences Building, College of Education, and a variety of other projects on the campus. I was involved with the Walton High School project over in Defuniak Springs.

John: I rode by that just Monday.

Bill: Did you?

John: I did.

Bill: Well, thank you for doing that.

John: I thought about you when I went by there.

Bill: It won some awards as some of these other projects did. Our firm tried to concentrate on high-level design projects, delivering a workable building for the building users. Most of our work was in the education field, whether it be K-12 or university level. We did do a good deal of military work. Eglin Air Force Base is a client of ours for, I think, 20, 25 years and we did, I don’t know, 50 or 80 buildings for them. I worked at Moody Air Force Base, Hurlburt Field, and a variety of other military installations. And that was pretty much my career.

John: Big contributions? The beauty of what you do in that line of work is that you can see tangible evidence of the work and the time you put in. It’s there. You drive past it; you see it.

Bill: Forever.

John: Forever.

Bill: And the building plaques that have our name on it is something that we’ve taken our children and grandchildren by to see what we did over the years, and it’s nice to leave that kind of impression on their minds in buildings that are going to serve children of the children that we’re talking about. So, really, a high degree of satisfaction there, having done things like that.

John: I learned from a mentor many years ago to look at my business the same way, that long after I’m dead and gone, people that I will never meet will benefit from the work that we have done at Team Curry, whether it be that individual who retired or the spouse, the child, the grandchildren, the great grandchildren, the charities that will benefit from the work we’ve done whether it be investments or the insurance world. And it’s the same with you. You drive by and you see it, and you say, “I had a part in that.”

Bill: Yeah, and it was part of a team effort. And when you use the word “team” for yours, your firm, that was the way we operated, too. There were so many people doing various things that contributed to it. It wasn’t a one-person show. You know, everybody in our office, and we usually had between 15 and 20 people, but they all contributed in some way to the project so everybody had a piece of it.

John: Right.

Bill: So, anyway…

John: Team effort.

Bill: Yeah.

John: Talk a little bit, Bill, about the transition because we’ve had several conversations over the years of we’re getting closer to retirement, a little bit of anxiety. Okay, can I really do it? Can I not do it? Talk a little bit about what you went through being a successful businessman, building a company as one of the founders, to this thing called retirement. Share a little bit of that.

Bill: Well, fortunately, I had, I don’t know, probably a 15- or 20-year experience with knowing you and having trust and confidence in you. We sort of opened up our books and our life and showed you all the things that we treasured over the years and how we could go forward, and you sort of showed us the way with numbers and investments and things that would help us in our retirement years.

John: I would say that over the years of working with the two of you, you have focused on what you wanted to accomplish, but you were also willing at times when you didn’t agree on something to listen and learn and then make your own decisions. Because I would have to say that I thank you for the compliment there, but the truth is the two of you did the work. What we did at Team Curry is kind of coach and guide a little bit and educate you, but you had to make the tough decisions. And those decisions that you made along the way, way before you met me, put you in the position of where you were able to retire. But focus just a little bit on making the transition of walking out the door to buying that motor home and the two of you traveling. Because I want to hear some of the travel stories, and, April, I know there’s some stuff you want to add so jump in in a minute, too.

Bill: It was very easy for me. We had been looking at motor homes for probably the last eight or ten years as we’re going down the highway, looking and imagining what it would be like to do all that kind of thing. And then we finally did that. We had one motor home which was smaller than the one we ended up with, and that sort of was an education process there, that we knew what we did want, what we didn’t want, but I think it was an easier process for me. I think guys gravitate towards mechanical things and things that require some level of effort to make it work and so on. I think I got a lot of satisfaction out of that. Donna would enjoy the inside of the coach, but I would enjoy all the coach, the driving and the mechanical issues. So, it was an easy transition for me.

Donna: Well, I think the reason we picked Motor Home of Travel is because we both like to travel very much. We’ve been to a lot of different countries through our marriage, but with what is going on around the world, we decided that we were going to see the US of A and check out things on the bucket list here.

John: Very good.

Donna: So we thought we’d sell our house, because we didn’t want people to be responsible for checking on whether the lawn people came, and it was just easier to get rid of the house, get a coach, and become full-time RVers. And some people thought we were crazy. Some people thought we were very brave. Sometimes I think we were crazy and brave, so….

Bill: Some people thought we were stupid.

Donna: And some days we thought we were stupid, crazy.

Bill: We may have said it earlier, but we thought 30 states in a 15-month period. Of a two-year commitment to doing all this during just 15 months, we did 30 states. We did everything east of the Mississippi except two states. Then we did four or five west of the Mississippi. In our marriage, we’ve done 48 states, but in the coach only 30, and as Donna said, we did a lot of Europe. We did most every country in Europe. I’m glad we did them when we did and we don’t have to do those now.

John: Very good. What would you say to anyone listening to this who is not as easy to transition, that they are not sure what the next part of their life is when they, quote, quit working and retire? The second half of the game, I call it. What advice would you offer anyone who’s thinking, like, I really want to go do some things, but they need that little nudge to encourage them to do it? So, let’s suppose their finances are in order, but they’re just so tied to work that they can’t let go. What advice would you offer anyone who’s thinking that way?

Donna: I would say life is short. You don’t know when your last day is. This country is a beautiful country. There are so many things to see. Get out and do it while you can. One day, you won’t be able to.

Bill: Yeah, I second that.

John: Great advice. Great advice. April, anything on your mind you want to ask?

April: I was just thinking kind of along the same lines, is there anything y’all thought was too much trouble for you going from the responsibility of working and into retirement? We have a client we met with yesterday who’s going to be retiring at the end of March, yet she’s been a little apprehensive. What is this next stage of my life going to look like? And we hear that a lot. If there’s anything that you can say, like, Okay, I did struggle with this.

Donna: You will struggle. If both of you have worked your entire married life, which we did, some of us part time, and being together 24/7 in a very small environment, can, on occasion, become an issue. Not a problem, but an issue. We found out that, when we were traveling, going places, checking where we were going next had something to do to look forward to, we were much better than if we were just sitting around doing nothing, because he’s an A-type personality. I don’t mind sitting and reading, but after a while, you need to do something. So, it is… you have to get your mindset that there will be days when you’ll think, I made the wrong decision. But if you’ve got a plan of places that you want to go, things that you want to see, and keep your mindset that that’s where you’re going and what you’re going to do, you’ll make it through the once-in-a-while day that, you know, you go, Oh, I made a mistake. Why am I doing this?

Bill: I brought along a bunch of books, maybe, I don’t know, 23 inches worth of books that I have on a shelf that never came off the shelf. I don’t think I’ve finished a book on the whole trip. I always had things I had to do, you know, outside or inside or whatever, and Donna probably thought we were going somewhere. I never had time to read.

John: I would think with the work that both of you did, because you had to be so focused on numbers and dealing with people and calculations and all that, that this had to be a tremendous relief just to get away from that.

Donna: Yeah.

Bill: It was, but I still to this day have reflections of being in the office and what’s the next project, what’s the next proposal, what needs review, all the, you know, personnel things. I don’t want to say issues because we were so lucky and so blessed to have a staff who was with us into the double digits for most of them. Loved our staff and it was probably the greatest accomplishment of our whole firm history as far as I’m concerned. But I still have dreams that I’m at the office and these issues are still coming up. I can’t get those to go away. It’s not bad things. It’s not nightmares or whatever. It’s just remembering the daily struggles of all the little things that you had to do.

John: That may never go away. I’ve had the pleasure of being in this business… I’m in my 43rd year now, and I’ve heard so many people talk about retiring, and even though they don’t go to the office, they still have fond memories of it. They think about it, because… think about it, if you work for 30 or 40 years in a career, you don’t just turn that off. Most people can’t do that. Some can but very few people can.

April: My father retired six years ago and he tells me he still has dreams about work.

Bill: So I’m glad I’m very normal.

April: You’re very normal. That’s right.

John: So you’re normal. Well, I don’t know about that. I don’t know if you’re normal or not. Rephrase that one.

This is a great segue to talk about some of the things… you said a plan earlier. Talk to us a little bit about how did you decide to just get a motor home and start traveling? I know you talked about it, what places you want to go. Tell us how you went about building the plan as to where to go, because we’ve had the benefit of hearing this over the years, but it’s just been fascinating.

Bill: We have to have a place we can take our dog. Therefore, buy a motor home so you can take the dog with you.

John: That’s good.

Bill: It’s somewhat true. I mean, we would constantly have to have a dog sitter whenever we’d go to… I mean, you want to go to Hawaii or you want to go to California and you’re going to be gone two or three weeks. You have to have a dog sitter and they’re not always available.

Donna: Well, our breed of dog you can’t kennel. She would die. They’re very needy.

Bill: Lapdog.

Donna: Yes, so, you know, we start and then we figured out how much money we spent on puppy sitters, because then you have to feed them and….

Bill: And a motor coach is so much more economical.

John: So much more.

April: But, Donna, when you were first starting your trip you had a list of places you were first going to go? How long of a time period did you plan out initially?

Donna: Well, I was instructed to write to all the different states, like on the eastern, northeastern seaboard, because it was the fall when we started out, so we were going to see the leaves change. So I had to write to all the states and get all the magazines and all the information, and then we kind of plot it out. And then, our son-in-law is a craft beer connoisseur and they found out we were going from Maine or something over to New York and they said, “Oh, could you go by Vermont to this brewery and get us some beer?” And then Suzanne goes, “Oh, well, there’s a Cabot cheese thing.” “Oh, well, there’s a Ben and Jerry’s.”

Bill: Ben and Jerry’s.

Donna: So it just kind of evolved that, you know, you tell somebody where you were going and they’d go, “Oh, well, you’ve got to go here and see this, do this.”

Bill: Yeah, we did not have a finite route that we were going to go from here to here to here. We had things that we wanted to do, but we were constantly adding to it. And some of our… I meant to bring my map to show you where we went and the directions and so on. And it looks a little crazy but some of them were driven by activities that had dates attached to them. Like, we wanted to go to a NASCAR race at the Indianapolis….

Donna: Brickyard Park.

Bill: … the Brickyard Racetrack. Well, we had to be there on a certain day to do that. And we wanted to go to a baseball game in Pittsburgh and had to be there on a certain day to do that. So, a lot of our destinations were sort of driven by activities that we were trying to get to.

John: I do want to see that map. I bet there’s some zigzagging on there, too.

Bill: Oh, it’s all over it. If you look at it, it looks like we just threw spaghetti on the map.

Donna: Didn’t we do 24… 22, 24 thousand miles, something like that?

Bill: Yeah, yeah.

Donna: Yeah, there was a lot of zigzagging.

John: What are some of the places, the trips that you went to that stick out that are most memorable for you? Donna, let’s start with you.

Donna: Well, mine is the Clydesdales. I had always wanted to go see the Clydesdales. So we ended up… didn’t know you had to have advance reservations, and here we pull on this little narrow road, our coach, and the girl comes out and she said, “Do you have tickets? Our tour just ended and the next one isn’t for two hours.” And we went, “No, we didn’t know you had to have tickets.” So she guided us in. She said, “That’s no problem. Come here, we’ll get you tickets.” So, we had an hour and a half of the two of us with about 10 to 15 Clydesdales, just ourselves.

John: This is the Budweiser Clydesdales you’re talking about?

Donna: Yes, at their breeding farm, which is in the middle of nowhere. But it was just such a beautiful day and these horses are so terrific when they’re running in the pastures and coming up. I enjoyed that.

I enjoyed… I was a little petrified… but I enjoyed going out on the little plastic… not plastic… whatever the platform is at the Sears Tower and you walk straight down? I made fun of the girl, too, in front of me because she didn’t want to go out on it. Ahh, piece of cake. And I got up there and I went, This is not a piece of cake. So I enjoyed that. And I enjoyed Niagara Falls. I had been there when I was a little girl but hadn’t been back, and he had never been. So we went, and we went to the Canadian side; we went to the American side.

Bill: Saw it in daylight and saw it from the boat.

Donna: Saw it at night and saw a girl… we didn’t see her fall over, but we saw the aftermath of what happens when you fall down the Falls. But that was fun. You asked me one day… I’ll tell you one place you asked me another day, I mean, we saw things that I don’t think we’d ever get to see had we not done this.

April: So once in a lifetime trip, right?

Donna: It really is. Yeah. I can’t really say that, you know, like tomorrow I may say being in Bar Harbor with the fall leaves was the best thing, going to Ben and Jerry’s was the best things, so it’s just a terrific way to see the country.

Bill: We went to Lambeau Field and did a tour of their stadium and we were just dumbfounded with what a terrific job they do there. You know, they’re all stockholders in the Green Bay Packers. This is the citizens. They own, I guess you have to have a share of stock to get a seat or whatever. So, they take great pride in their stadium and they put on tours, and these stockholders and stuff, I guess they’re probably the guides and someone to show you through, but they took us through the sky boxes, you know, where the corporations have seats overlooking the field. They took us down to walk through the tunnel where the players come out. They played the music like the opening of a game and then the crowd roaring like that, and you could get your picture taken in front of the goalposts. Then we went up to… they have very nice restaurant/bar kind of thing. You could eat inside or outside and a special beer that probably was served at the stadium, their own, I think it was named after Curly Lambeau or something like that.

Donna: And cheese curds.

Bill: And cheese curds. We got introduced to cheese curds which we’d always heard about but had never tasted, and they were gorgeous. They were just fabulous. And they had the best beer and the best cheese curds we had anywhere along the route, because we started eating cheese curds. They were all measured against how good they were at Lambeau Field. But it was a beautiful stadium, and then the way they… the effort that they put in to make sure you enjoyed it was really stunning.

Donna: They’re a reasonable price, too, and when we were in Pittsburgh, you had to call a number and they only did tours certain times on certain days. They made it so difficult but, yet, you go to Lambeau. Every hour they’ve got one of three different kinds of tours that you can go on, so they really want you to see their field. You know, it was super.

John: While you were at Lambeau Field, did you go to their museum? The Green Bay Packers museum?

Donna: We did not do that.

John: That’s an awesome experience.

Donna: Well, that’s what we heard, but we were on a sort of a short leash that day.

John: My son and I went to a ballgame there…

Donna: Oh, did you?

John: … in December of 2000, and… I’m sorry, 1999, and then the people who treated us came here to watch…

Donna: Oh, wow, okay.

John: … the FSU/Florida game in 2000, and we had all the trucks out there because of the election, but my son, just two nights ago, we were having dinner and he’s 34 years old now. He was telling me about his memories of us going there…

Donna: Of going there?

John: … going to that ballgame.

Bill: Yeah, they’ll never fade from ours. And you know, some of the places that we went were architecturally… where there were things that I wanted to see, because I had always, you know, seen in magazines and heard about so we went to Frank Lloyd Wright’s residence in Wisconsin, so we go to see his residence there. And we had already seen the one… Taliesin West out in Phoenix. Phoenix, I think it was.

Donna: Um-hum, um-hum.

Bill: That was a great thing. And we got to go to Falling Water outside of Pittsburgh, which is another one of his famous, famous structures.

Donna: Some beautiful chapels, too, in Arkansas...

Bill: Yeah.

Donna: … with beautiful settings in the woods.

Bill: We went to Branson, of course, and got to the shows and stuff there.

John: Right.

Bill: That’s kind of a neat place to go. We had always heard about it, and I don’t know that I need to go back but we did enjoy the shows we went to and being there. We went through Chicago on the river and saw, you know, a lot of the architecture there. Went through the distilleries in Louisville, Kentucky. They’ve got a regular whiskey trail or something.

John: Bourbon Trail.

Bill: Bourbon Trail.

John: Did you go on the Bourbon Trail?

Bill: We did a part of it.

Donna: Did part of it.

John: I’m jealous that you didn’t take me with you.

Bill: What was the distillery that we went to?

Donna: Jim Beam.

Bill: Yeah, Jim Beam. We’re not whiskey drinkers but we just wanted to have…

Donna: We’re redneck beer drinkers.

Bill: … the experience of been there/done that, seeing that kind of stuff. We went to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Went to the Harley-Davidson Museum in Milwaukee. Milwaukee was a great city, beautiful waterfront. They had a great art museum there.

Donna: Went to the… in Kansas City… the mint.

Bill: Yeah. What did you get for the kids there?

Donna: Shredded… oh, well, I gave them shredded money and then also they had bars of soap and there was a real bill inside, either a one, a five, a ten, a twenty, or fifty, but you couldn’t tell until you used up the soap…

Bill: Or…

Donna: … or as the boys did, they just scraped…

John: Gimme the money. That’s a new definition….

Donna: Yeah, show me the money.

John: That’s funny. That’s a new version though.

Donna: But that’s funny because you actually got to actually live… I mean, you pull down on this machine so you could feel how heavy a gold bar is. I mean, you see these in the movies and you think, Ahh, I know they’re sort of heavy. They are really heavy. So that was very… the tour was very interesting there.

John: Did you bring home any samples of the gold?

Donna: No, they wouldn’t let any go, and they only let you have one bag of shredded money per person. I wanted two so I could give one to a grandchild and I could keep one, and Bill goes, “Yeah, they have cameras around here, Elliott.”

John: That’s right, because of jail, go to jail.

Donna: Yeah.

John: What other trips did you take that are memorable? It’s exciting just sitting here watching you and just seeing your passion.

Donna: Well, we went to the cornfields of Iowa just row after row after row of cornfields, but let me tell you, you have never had corn until you have fresh-picked cooked corn. I mean, cook it the day they pick it. It was to die for, so that was fun. And what else do you…

Bill: You mean trips outside of the RV experience? Or…

John: Anywhere, but especially on this adventure you did with the RV...

Donna: This two-year adventure.

John: … but any trips.

Bill: Upper Michigan. I don’t know if we…

Donna: Oh, no, we didn’t talk about that. But that was beautiful.

Bill: It was a real surprise because I was really…. We had some friends who were up there and wanted us to come visit up in Harbor Springs, which is north of Petoskey, which is on the northwesternmost part of the… what they call a Michigan Mitten. And the beauty of going up the center of it was the cornfields and the green trees and things like that, and then you get to the coast and they’ve got these outrageous views that are just fantastic and…

Donna: And the flowers, a wall of flowers.

Bill: … quaint little houses for bed and breakfasts and things like that. Wonderful beer, food, and then you get up to the Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore on northern Michigan and the rock… It’s like real sheer cliffs, but the colors of the rock are unbelievable. And what was the island that we went around?

Donna: I can’t remember.

Bill: Yeah, I can’t either. Anyway, we went on a…

Donna: A rubber boat.

Bill: … rubber boat with a jet engine or something…

Donna: Yeah, that was fun. You’re going to get wet, I’ll tell you.

Bill: … into the rocks…

Donna: In the cave area, yeah.

Bill: … the cave area and look up…

Donna: And see all the different colors, yeah.

Bill: … colors. I’ll show you some of that on my phone there. I’ve got some pictures of it. They were almost just indescribable.

Donna: Yeah, they had a big cruise boat that you could go on and just kind of cruise by. Well, we took the little rubber raft-like thing. The guy goes, “Be ready to get wet.” And we did, but it was the most fun.

John: Did you feel like kids again?

Donna: Yes, we did, yes, yes. And then we went up to the upper peninsular so we’re now UPers…

Bill: Yeah, U-P, UPers.

Donna: … yeah, UPers, but the wildflowers on the side, both sides of the road… pinks, blues, yellows, whites… were just fabulous and then we went in to see…

Bill: A moose…

Donna: Oh, huh?

Bill: Saw the moose…

Donna: We did see a moose…

Bill: … on the side of the road.

Donna: … on the side of the road, so I made him slam on the brakes so I could get out and photograph.

Bill: Which is real easy to do with a coach.

Donna: And we went in to Lake Michigan and found some Petoskey stones that are supposedly something really unique that they named them after Petoskey, but they have these little indents on their very…

Bill: What looks like a coral-looking thing…

Donna: Yeah.

Bill: … but then in a smooth stone.

Donna: Yeah, on a smooth stone from the glaciers coming down. So, we found… we actually… I thought, Boy, we’re going in the lake. And the lake was very warm. I would have thought it would have been very, very cold. And we took a three and a half-hour ferry ride to Isle Royale, one of the national parks, three and a half there and three and a half back. And that was interesting. There were supposed to be 1500 moose on the island. Did not see a moose. Saw some…

Bill: Evidence of moose.

Donna: … evidence of moose, and so then, we’re leaving the UP and it’s sort of a dreary day and we’re driving down the road, and Bill goes, “There’s a moose.”

“Oh, my God, stop, stop.” So, we have heard that, if they pick their head up, you want to get out of there. Well, a car… I was back to where the towed was, snapping photos and a car zipped and did a 180 and pulled over right in front of him. Well, he picked his head up and I thought, I’m going back in the coach now. You could tell it was a moose on my photos, so we did get to see a moose.

John: That is so cool.

Donna: So that was fun.

Bill: And the towed is the towed car.

Donna: Yes, I’m sorry.

John: Okay, good. Thanks for clarifying that. That was good.

Here’s my takeaway from this. Not only did you get in the motorhome and you drive places, but you got out and you did things. So it wasn’t like a rush tour, I just got to go to these 38 states, or whatever. You actually spent time, enjoyed yourselves…

Donna: Yes.

John: … got to know each other better, and you took in our great country.

Donna: We did… or the east side of it. We had been on so many tours out West that we said, well, we had done this two-year commitment and we didn’t want to do stuff we’d already been. There were a few parks in the Southwest that we hadn’t been to, but just with... You know, we said, well, it’s been two years. We’ve missed so much of our grandkids, so we decided we would grow up and settle down and enjoy grandchildren now.

Bill: So, we’ve got grandchildren in Charlotte. We’ve got two there, we’ve got two in Black Mountain, North Carolina, and then we’ve got one at the University of Tennessee.

Donna: One in Black Mountain. I mean that’s her summer home and she’s going to college at UT.

Bill: So they’re all in a sort of a beeline right across North Carolina to Tennessee, so you just hopscotch across the state to see them all.

John: That’s a good segue to my… what I think is the last question unless there’s something else that pops up. What’s next for Donna and Bill Elliott?

Bill: Uhhhh….

Donna: Ta-dahhh.

John: You’re still young and full of energy, so what are you going to do?

Donna: Well, we have purchased a lot in South Carolina five minutes from the Culver’s with cheese curds and 45 minutes from our children, so we’re not too close to them. So, we’re going to have a house built in a 55-plus community that we got to spend two nights there, met some lovely people there, so I don’t think we’re going to become permanents. I think we… one of the ladies that we met at the Monday evening dinner showed us her calendar for February and there was one day that she didn’t have something to do.

April: Okay.

Donna: So I don’t think we’re going to be a burden on our children. They may get upset because we don’t have enough time for them, so that’s our next stage.

John: As you were talking, Bill just handed me his phone with this picture, and you’ve got this big old piece of cheese on top of your head, and I have one of those at home also. Or my son does.

Donna: He wouldn’t let me buy that, so I have the little drink one.

John: He wouldn’t buy you that?

Donna: No. Did he show you him with the cheese head on?

John: No, he didn’t show me that one.

Bill: I don’t have that picture.

April: Convenient.

John: That is so cool. That is so cool.

Bill: I took pictures as we were going across the country of signs that I just thought were funny.

John: You sent me some of those, yes.

Bill: And I’ve probably got 60 or 80 of them that I’m going to try to put some sort of a little show together of just those signs, sort of, here’s what we saw across the country.

April: A great coffee table book.

John: Yes.

Donna: Yeah.

John: I tell you, it’ll be something else, too. How about pulling that together and let’s do another interview, a podcast, and share some of those, because some of those have got to be hilarious. You sent some to me that I thought were real funny and were very enjoyable.

We’re about to run out of time here. Is there any closing thoughts that you’d like to share with people that have been listening to your story that might be sitting there going, Wow, I want to do some of that, but I’m not so sure. Just anything that’s on your mind that you would share.

Donna: If you talk to people that do RV, you will know that this is what you should do. People are very friendly in the parks. They love what they’re doing. They’ll answer your questions if you have any hesitation about it, but I just say life is short. Go for it. Don’t think about, Am I going to have a good time? You’ll have a good time. Just don’t worry about it, but do it. Do it while you can.

Bill: We had no bad experiences in the parks with, you know, strange people or of people hounding you or bothering you or whatever. If you saw somebody and exchanged glances and it looks like they want to talk, you can talk, but we’ve never had anybody banging on our door asking for a cup of sugar or anything like that. And we didn’t see any of the RV experiences that you see on the RV show with… what’s the dead comedian?

John: Oh, John Candy?

Bill: No.

Donna: No, the little funny guy, short.

Bill: Well, the RV movie, you know, with exploding toilet systems and things like that.

John: You had none of that.

Bill: We never saw any of those.

John: I know when I had my mother along I didn’t travel as much as you did, but every time I would go to an RV park, if you opened your hood because you’re checking the oil, somebody would come over and say, “Do you have a problem?” And would be helpful, so I would agree with you, Donna, that people are just very friendly. They want to help any way they can. And you meet some very nice people, some very nice people, that it’s a good way to travel in retirement.

Bill: We went to a seminar, which you’ve probably touched on this… We went to a seminar and the guy said, “You know, you don’t need to bring your big Craftsman toolbox that has 19 drawers in it and every tool imaginable and stuff that on your coach and add 200 pounds to tote down the road.” He says, “Wherever you go,” like you just said, “open your hood and there’s going to be five guys in there that have every tool imaginable, you don’t have to carry it because you can borrow it.” And I never had the need to do that, but I saw other people that had to do it and that was really kind of true. But if you get a chance if you’re going to do this, take in some of the educational seminars on RVing, and we went to one that was a real good one that…

Donna: Oh, Lazy Days?

Bill: … Lazy Days in Tampa offered seminars, I think, daily if not on weekends, and they have a driving school where they put you in a coach and let you drive after they’ve educated you on all the things that you should know about. And then there’s a huge RV show in Tampa every January or February….

Donna: But they have them other places, too, that would be good to go to before you….

Bill: … with every vendor imaginable, selling everything that you could possibly use on a coach, you know, in great volumes, so if you go there and you can’t find what you’re looking for…

Donna: And they have classes at this RV thing…

Bill: … and those are very helpful…

Donna: … to help you decide do you want a fifth wheel, do you want a Class A, do you want a Class C, and give you things to think about and talk about. Just don’t run out and buy the first thing on the lot that you see that you like. Think about, I’m going to be living in this, or, you know, is this going to suit my needs? Is it big enough? You know, can it pull a car? Gas versus diesel. There’s a lot to think of so think about it, spend some time going to different places, looking around before you jump in, because I think that’s what we did on the first one. We bought one, it wasn’t big enough.

Bill: Because we didn’t know what we were doing.

Donna: Yeah, so we had it a week.

John: I remember that conversation very well. I remember us talking about that. But I think that’s great advice. No matter what you’re doing, whether it be travel, your financial planning, your retirement planning, get educated. In fact, I remember you folks coming to one of our seminars many, many years ago.

Donna: Yeah.

John: And you’ve always had a desire to learn and grow and get educated before you make decisions, and that’s good advice.

Thank you so much for being with us today. This has been… I’ve learned some things that I didn’t even know about. And I’ve heard a lot of these stories that you shared with us. And thank you so much for joining April and me….

Bill: We went to your seminar for the food, but that food was excellent.

John: But I’m sorry we didn’t have any cheese curds for you.

Donna: Well, good. We didn’t know about them then, so you’re safe.

John: So now I’m in trouble. Anytime I serve something now, you’re going to be measuring me to cheese curds?

Donna: Yes, I am, yes, I am.

John: I’ll remember that. I’ll remember that. Thanks again for being with us and….

Donna: Thank you.

John: April, anything you want to wrap up with?

April: We’re good. That was wonderful.

John: Very good. Goodbye, folks.

Donna: Bye.

Bill: Bye.


If you'd like to know more about John Curry's services, you can request a complimentary information package by visiting johnhcurry.com/podcast. Again, that is johnhcurry.com/podcast. Or you can call his office at 850-562-3000. Again, that is 850-562-3000. John H. Curry chartered life underwriter, chartered financial consultant, accredited estate planner, masters in science and financial services, certified in long-term care, registered representative and financial advisor at Park Avenue Securities LLC.
Securities products and services and advisory services are offered through Park Avenue Securities, a registered broker-dealer and investment advisor. Park Avenue Securities is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Guardian. North Florida Financial Corporation is not an affiliate or subsidiary of Park Avenue Securities. Park Avenue Securities is a member of FINRA and SIPC. This material is intended for general public use.
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Not affiliated with the Florida Retirement System. The Living Balance Sheet and the Living Balance Sheet logo are registered service marks of The Guardian Life Insurance Company of America, New York, New York copyright 2005-2020. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Guest speakers and their firms are not affiliated with or endorsed by Park Avenue Securities or Guardian and opinions stated are their own.
2020-96623 Expires 3/2022

 

 

Preparing for Life’s Financial Threats

Most people aren’t looking for an extravagant lifestyle.

They want to buy a nice home, own a reliable car, save money for their kids’ – even grandkids’ – educations, and put away enough money for a comfortable retirement.

That’s a good life.

To ensure that happens you need to prepare now for the biggest financial danger to your retirement. It’s a danger that many suffered from in the 2008 economic crisis… and the problem hasn’t gone away.

Fortunately, you can safeguard your retirement by following some simple guidelines.

Listen in to discover…

  • The 4 P’s you need in place now for a comfortable retirement

  • Why protecting your money always comes first

  • How to create a living balance sheet to guide your financial decisions

  • When term life insurance or whole life insurance is best for you

  • The reason cash is not king anymore… and what you should focus on instead

Listen now…

 

 

 

 

 

2018-53805 Exp 2/20

 

 

Financial Issues Impacting Members of the Florida Retirement System

For members of The Florida Retirement System, the decisions you must make to optimize your retirement income can be complicated and confusing.

In this interview, John Curry breaks down the key considerations and decisions that are unique to FRS members.

Listen now…

2017-45833 Exp 9/19

How to stay engaged and excited about life (even in retirement) – Dr. Charles Nam

This is a fascinating interview with WWII veteran, pioneer of population study at Florida State, and now a master his own retired life, Dr. Charlie Nam. Charlie shares his keys to staying engaged and excited about the future, even in retirement.

Transcript:

Curry: Hello. This is John Curry. I have the pleasure today of sitting here with Dr. Charles Nam in his nice home, having a glass of wine with him. Charlie is a retired professor from Florida State University, and the reason we’re doing this interview is I’m interviewing people that I call the experts. And I’ve known you since 1976 and over the years you’ve done a lot of work because of your training and education dealing with demographics, sociology, retirement issues, longevity, and we’ve had some fantastic conversations over the years. And I just wanted to share that with people. So, first of all, I want to thank you for allowing me to sit with you and do this in your nice home and enjoy this nice glass of wine.

Nam: My pleasure.

Curry: Take a moment please and just share with people who might be listening to this your background, how you got started at Florida State University, just how you got interested in the things that you’ve studied and shared with me over the years about longevity.

Nam: Well, I was in World War II in combat in Europe… when I was 18 years old.

Curry: But you went in the Army at 17 though, didn’t you?

Nam: Yes.

Curry: I remember those stories about that.

Nam: And I was one of the younger people who fought in World War II, and when I got out of the Army and applied to go to college, I was told that, “It’s difficult to admit you because all of the older GIs that have come out of service were filling up the spaces in the universities and we didn’t have room for you younger guys.”

I went to New York University. At the time, my parents were in the suburbs of New York, and I asked them what it would take to get into the university. And my grades were good and my qualifications were okay and they said, “Well, you’ll have to wait until we have a slot for you.”

And I said there must be some way to get in. And they said, “Would you consider starting in the night school?”

And I said, “Will that get me into the day school?”

And they said, “Well, if you did well in the night school, we would move you to the day school.”

So I said fine, and my first semester in New York University I was in the night school. I had to commute in on the railroad to New York University. I attended courses at night, and at the end of the term they said, “Okay, we’ll put you in the day session.” And I finished the rest of the program in three years and got my bachelor’s degree in applied statistics. Statistics was always an interest of mine in a popular way, like, I’d collected statistics about baseball players and things of that sort. I didn’t even know there was a field like that.

And at the time there really weren’t statistics departments in more than two or three universities in the country, and New York University had what they called an applied statistics program where you took courses in mathematics, economics, business, sociology, wherever there were concerns about statistics. And I benefited greatly from that program.

When I finished it, I applied for a Federal Government job and was hired at the US Census Bureau, which had just taken the 1950 census of population and needed some young professionals to help them develop the data with processing and analyzing the data. So I went to Washington and spent a few years working on the 1950 census. And the people I was working for, my supervisors, were people with PhDs who had already established themselves in the social science professions, and I learned from them what it took to be a professional in the industry. And I got very attracted to it, and so I developed my skills there.

There came a time in 1953 when they said they no longer could retain me because the period of census analysis was completed and they would have to let me go. Well, they had let many more go before me but I was let go as well, and so, through various means, I went back to complete a master’s degree and a PhD at the University of North Carolina.

At that point the Census Bureau said, “Why don’t you come back and you can be a branch chief for us for the 1960 census?” And I did that and spent a few years there, but I wasn’t really satisfied with my professional work there. Government work requires you to do what the government needs to have done, and I’m a little more innovative than that and I didn’t have an opportunity to lead.

Curry: Some people that know you very well would say that innovative is not the right word. Maybe a bit of a maverick.

Nam: A bit of a maverick perhaps. And so I started looking around in terms of university employment, and that’s what brought me to Florida State University. You have to understand that, at that time in the early 1960s, the population in the United States and in the world was growing at the most rapid rate it had ever experienced.

Curry: I did not realize that. So the 1960s was the….

Nam: The early 1960s, the highest rate of population growth in the world and in the United States as well, and that made the Federal Government very sensitive to the need for understanding what was happening with the population, and they built programs to support research and to support graduate education. And so, when Florida State University hired me, I said to the chairman of the sociology department, “Let’s go and get some of these fellowships that they’re offering from the Federal Government.” And we got four of them that came with my introduction to Florida State University. And that started the development of a program which still exists today on population research at Florida State University. In fact, this year we’ll celebrate our fiftieth anniversary as a center for population studies.

Curry: Wow. Let’s hit the pause button for a second. You’ve just covered a lot of material. So here’s what’s going through my mind. I’m hearing a young man, 17 years old, goes into the Army, 18 years old officially. You go to war. If I recall correctly from what you shared with me on our Honor Flight show together, you were in infantry, I believe, so you saw combat. You made it back. You wanted to better yourself, and because of the GI bill, you were able to go to college, but yet, you were thrown a hurdle in front of you – “Well, you can’t come during the daytime; you have to come at night.” So, instead of giving up and saying, “Well, you know, that doesn’t fit me. I’m gonna walk away,” you paid the price and did what you had to do – ride the subway and get to work and go to school at night.

Nam: True.

Curry: There’s a lesson there and the lesson is that, if you truly want something, you have to pay the price to get it.

Nam: That’s right.

Curry: And that’s true whether it be in your field or in my field in the world of business. You have a choice in life, you know. You can endure a little bit of hardship and work hard and work through it, or you can give in and walk away. You didn’t give in. You pursued that.

Nam: Yes.

Curry: Then, you didn’t have – everything wasn’t perfect so you ended up going to Washington DC to work with the Census Bureau, and then they get rid of you because the projects are over.

Nam: Right.

Curry: So you leave, but I’m curious. You didn’t say how you got to North Carolina. Why North Carolina? What happened there?

Nam: Well, when the Census Bureau let me go, I was actually unemployed for two months, because Dwight Eisenhower had become president just shortly before and I admired him greatly because he was our leader in Europe during the war.

Curry: Right.

Nam: And the fact was he had promised to cut back on federal employment and I was a victim.

Curry: You didn’t like him so much then, did you.

Nam: But I kept looking, so it was hard to get other kinds of jobs in the Federal Government, and I was thinking, well, I’ll look around in the private sector, when one of these chance events occurred. In Montgomery, Alabama, where Maxwell Air Force Base is located…

Curry: I’ve been there, because I was in the Air Force.

Nam: Okay. Well, somebody representing Maxwell Air Force Base came to the Census Bureau just before I left saying, “We are developing a demographic unit at Maxwell Air Force Base and we’re looking for an employee who can do some analysis of some data we have.” And my then supervisor said, “We have the perfect person for you.” They interviewed me and I got the job. And I went down to Montgomery, Alabama. I was there for ten months working with them. I got a lot of good experience, and they had several people as consultants that came down there. One of them was a professor from North Carolina and I met him. I guess he was impressed with me and he said, “Why don’t you go on to graduate school?”

And I said, “Well, I just don’t know, you know.”

He said, “If you come to Chapel Hill, I’ll give you a graduate research assistantship and you can work with me.” So I went and took the graduate record examination and passed it adequately and that’s what took me to North Carolina.

Curry: So, again, just dealing with life. Before we turned the recorder on, you shared with me a conversation you had this morning with a gentleman who’s 95. Would you share with our listeners how old you are?

Nam: Well, you’re thinking about the point of chance?

Curry: Yes.

Nam: Yes, I think chance played a role in several points here. The chance that the job at Maxwell Air Force Base was created, which took me down there. The chance that the professor from North Carolina happened to be a consultant at the time I was there and I met him. And the chance that we had managed to connect and he offered me the assistantship.

Curry: But can we also agree that while chance was involved that if you were not prepared, that chance probably would not have been offered? Because I remember reading somewhere as a young man… I think I was in the Air Force. I went in the Air Force at 17. My dad had to sign for me. But I seem to remember while I was in the Air Force that luck is where preparation and opportunity meet.

Nam: Yes.

Curry: So “chance” could be substituted for the word “luck.” So you have to be prepared so that, when that chance can tap you on the shoulder, then you’re ready.
,
Nam: Yeah, I agree with that. And I think my training at New York University for my undergraduate degree prepared me well for the various tasks I did both at the Census Bureau and at Maxwell Air Force Base. So, when we had meetings there that involved the consultants, I was called on from time to time to make comments, and I guess my comments based on my experiences and education impressed them enough to say, “Here’s a fellow who can do something in the future.”

Curry: Very good. All right, let’s go back to Florida State now. So you’re at Florida State University. So you’ve come in. What was your initial role at Florida State?

Nam: Well, because population studies was getting to be a national interest in this country, Florida State was interested in developing a population study specialty, and that was the main reason they hired me. They were counting on me to develop a program.

Curry: So you were hired to come in and start that.

Nam: To start that.

Curry: Now, I did not realize that. I knew that you were head of that department for a long time, but I did not realize you started it.

Nam: I was recruited to do exactly that, and I mentioned the fellowships we got from the Federal Government, and at the time we only had one undergraduate and one graduate course in population studies.

Curry: Take a moment and explain how a fellowship works so people could understand that.

Nam: Well, we had funding from the National Institutes of Health, specifying people who had masters and doctoral training in population studies, and they specified the amount of the fellowship. We would then recruit students who would fit into those slots. But at the time, a lot of very able graduate students did not have funding for their graduate education, so this was considered a plum for them and we had the plum.

Curry: Very good. So you were able to attract talent.

Nam: To pick the best ones, right.

Curry: Over the years when we’ve had our personal conversations, you’ve talked about longevity; you’ve talked about life expectancy. How much did you get involved in that because of your work in sociology and studying population? How did you get an interest in that?

Nam: Well, someone said that in my early career in the demographic field, I was interested in the study of fertility, of childbearing, and then as time went on, I seemed to shift to an interest in migration. But then as I got older and I guess my own concerns oriented me more to life expectancy and what the risks of mortality were. And so most of my research in the last 20 years of my professional career was focused on health and life expectancy. And I’ve done quite a bit of research in that area, which includes the effects of various factors like cigarette smoking and other behaviors that restrict life expectancy.

Curry: Very good. I know in my planning, I tell people, “Look, the seven mistakes that we… that most people make, number one, is underestimating life expectancy. My oldest client is now 100 years old. She turned 100 on February 9th. A lot of clients are in their nineties, even more in their eighties, scaled back to seventies and sixties. I have some clients who come to me because of their parents or grandparents referring them to me that are 22, 25 years old. That’s unusual, because I say, “I’m 64; are you sure you want to work with me? I can get you a younger associate.” But because of the relationship, we work together.

But it’s amazing what I’m experiencing, understanding and studying life expectancy myself. And I’m definitely not a scientist like you are, but over the years I’ve learned that the more I can learn about the subject of longevity, health, nutrition, wellness in general, and help clients understand it, the better prepared they are for retirement, because it’s not just about money.

You know, sometimes people think, “Well, I’ll go to John and get help on the retirement income side.” You know, that’s okay, but if you don’t plan for a long life, you could run out of money. On the other hand, somebody could be like my grandfather. He retired and unfortunately died four and a half years later, and my dad retired and lived 23 years in retirement. So what’s it going to be? Short life expectancy in retirement or a long one? And we don’t really know, do we?

Nam: The research has shown that people don’t die prematurely after retirement, that there are many other factors that have to do with their life expectancy. And I think, you know, partly it’s genetics, what genes you’ve inherited from your parents, and part of it is your own behavior and the risks you take in life. And you have to weigh both of those things as you think about life expectancy.
\
In my case, my mother lived to 83 and I’ve already passed that, and my father lived to 94 and I haven’t reached that yet. And I’m sort of in the middle of those two life expectancies. Well, you would expect that the son of two people who lived to old age would also live to old age. However, my oldest sister died at 69, so she didn’t even make the life expectancy of my mother. So there are a lot of factors that contribute to what life expectancy will be.

I’m very fortunate that I’m approaching 91 and in reasonably good health. And as you indicated earlier that I’m very conscious of my diet, my exercise, my general behavior. I don’t smoke. I drink very moderately, and I think that’s been to my benefit.

Curry: No doubt. No doubt. What does your research show as far as the impact… and we have the ability with behavior modification to maybe beat up the genes, or is it the way we’re born, the way it is?

Nam: Well, you inherit your genes. There’s nothing much you can do about that.

Curry: Right.

Nam: And so, what you have to do is take that as a given and then consider how you behave yourself to improve your life expectancy. I think people have underrated the importance of physical activity and the mental activity, because it isn’t just a matter of having your body be healthy. You have to have your mind be healthy, as well. And, you know, dementia has become a big problem in our society at older ages, and you can postpone dementia or avoid it by using your mind very well, as well as taking care of your body. Research has shown that these things do affect the risk of getting some form of dementia.

Curry: I do a lot of reading in that area, and I’m convinced that the things that I’m doing from the standpoint of doing martial arts, staying active, physically, mentally, will help me from the standpoint of hopefully delaying or postponing those type things, dementia, Alzheimer’s. The studies I’ve read, and they’re definitely not always scientific studies, have indicated that the more we can do things like doing puzzles, anything like dance, martial arts, where you have to think things through, make your mind work, make the brain work, that it’s good for you. So you’re simply confirming that.

Nam: Yeah, I think so. Exercise can be mental as well as physical.

Curry: Yes, yes. I had the pleasure in December of going to San Diego for a program called Unbeatable Mind Retreat. It’s put on by a retired Navy SEAL commander. And he talks about the five mountains to self-mastery. Number one is physical, then mental, emotional, intuition, and spirit. His premise is that, if you’re not physically fit, then you’re not going to be able to transport yourself around and do the things you need to do. But if you get physically active, your mind gets involved mentally, as you said a moment ago. If you are physically and mentally in control, you have better control of your emotions. You’re not so quick to be angry, lose control.

And then the intuition is following the gut. He said that it’s been proven by scientists there’s more nerves in our gut than anywhere else in the body, and he gives the example in Navy SEAL training, Charlie, that if they’re supposed to go to the right, if they have this gut feeling that that’s a mistake, go to the left. They do it to follow the gut. They’re taught to follow the gut.

And then the spirit, he talks about the corps of spirit that in Japanese that is the blending of the mind and body. What is your spirit? And I would say that when you were first told there was no place for you during the day you had that fighting spirit of “I’m going to make this happen,” unbeatable, and you found a way.

I’m interested in knowing more about how you’ve used that over the course of the years, because you’ve done a lot of research. You have been very active in your profession. I know that you’ve been president of various organizations. I don’t recall the organization, but I remember us talking about some organization or conference you go to pretty much every year, I think you said, for about 50 years?

Nam: Yes.

Curry: What organization is that?

Nam: Population Association of America. It’s the National Association of Demographers. And I will be going to their meeting in Chicago next month.

Curry: That’s great. Now how many years have you gone to this?

Nam: Well over 50.

Curry: Well over 50?

Nam: Yes.

Curry: Well over 50. So here you are, you’ve already revealed your age so I’m going to say it. So here you are almost 91. Why in the world would a 91-year-old fellow get on an airplane and travel to something like that? Why are you doing that?

Nam: Well, in my case, it’s a matter of staying in touch with my field. Of course, most of my peers have either left the Earth or are no longer active, but I’m interested in the research, particularly in my areas of interest, and it’s a good experience for me. But there’s still another thing which is important and that is staying active in a lot of different ways. Here in the retirement community, I volunteer for a lot of activities, and I had my own rule that every six months I will start a new activity.

Curry: I like that. Why every six months?

Nam: Well, that’s just kind of a rule of thumb, and I’ll give you an example of the kinds of activities that I’ve been involved in recently. One, as a teenager I played table tennis, but all the years since, I’ve never played. Here at Westminster Oaks, we have a table tennis team, and people mostly in their seventies and eighties and they’re very competitive. They go play in tournaments in Tallahassee and Florida at large and usually come back with gold, silver, and bronze medals.

Curry: Very nice.

Nam: And so they talked to me about joining the team. I said, “Well, I haven’t played since I was a teenager.” They said that’s okay. Well, I’ve gotten to the point where I’m the leading 90-and-over player on the team.

Curry: Very good.

Nam: And so that’s an example of a new activity. It’s both physical and mental in terms of its capacity.

Curry: Let’s break that down for a moment. You’ve got the physical, the mental, and you’ve got the social aspects, and the competition makes you strive to be better.

Nam: Absolutely.

Curry: Instead of sitting here watching television all day.

Nam: Exactly. And let me give you one other example. I never in all my life acted on a stage, not even in elementary school when there were plays. I just rejected all that. Well, here at Westminster Oaks, a woman who is a resident, who is experienced with teaching acting, offered a class. She said, “Why don’t you come to the class?”

And I said, “Oh, I can’t act.”

She said, “Well, just come to the class and sit in it.” Well, I came to the class. It was kind of interesting. She offered an advanced class after that and I joined that. And the next thing you know I was in one play and then a second play, and I’m not getting ready for a third one. And I’ve become an actor at age 90.

Curry: So when will we see you on Broadway?

Nam: Not quite Broadway but…. This is another example. It’s physical, it’s mental, and it’s social as you pointed out.

Curry: And a sense of accomplishment, personally, on the individual side.

Nam: Yes.

Curry: You’re doing something that’s…

Nam: And it’s not that I have those skills necessarily, but people are willing to let me present those skills that I have.

Curry: I love it. I love it. Let’s switch gears for a moment, and I’m going to ask you to pretend you’re sitting in front of an audience, standing in front of an audience, and you’re giving them advice about this thing called retirement. What words of wisdom would you share? Getting ready to retire, working up to it say five or ten years before retirement, and then going into this thing called retirement and after. What are your thoughts?

Nam: Well, the first thing I would say is that, if you’re going to retire from your work situation, don’t think of that kind of retirement as being near the end of your life, that you still have to be very active beyond that point. Well, I would say, first, try to extend your work life as long as possible, because first of all it would be remunerative and, secondly, it would build up a lot of experience that would be good for you in your later years. But apart from the work experience, I think once you retire you have to adopt a set of activities that will keep you going, that will keep you alert, that will allow you perhaps to develop some new skills. Because there’s increasingly, with life expectancy going up, there are more years after work that we have to live and we can’t just be vegetables. We have to be active.

Curry: How old were you when you retired from Florida State?

Nam: I was approaching 70.

Curry: Approaching 70. Why did you work beyond, quote, normal retirement at age of 65? You could have retired. Financially, I know that you had the resources.

Nam: Well, I was still involved in research projects, still involved in teaching, and I didn’t dislike it so… and I understood there were benefits, for example, for Social Security to continue working till 70. I would get an increased benefit and also in my pension from the State of Florida, so that was to my benefit, as well.

Curry: So you had the benefit of having the salary up until retirement, and you increased your benefits later in life.

Nam: Yes.

Curry: We would call that delayed gratification.

Nam: Absolutely.

Curry: But at the same time, you were still contributing right up until the day you retired. It’s not like you were coasting. You were enjoying yourself and working.

Nam: That’s true.

Curry: Was it difficult for you to walk away from this thing you created and retire? It had to be somewhat difficult.

Nam: Well, the fact of the matter is I haven’t walked away from it.

Curry: Oh, okay. So the truth is coming out. You’re still working.

Nam: I still have an office at the university, for example.

Curry: Okay.

Nam: And here it is, I mean, I retired in 1995, the end of 1995. I still have an office because I’m still doing at least a small amount of academic research, and I give occasional guest lectures, and my colleagues like to have me around every once in a while and so I go to their staff meetings once a month. And it’s good for me and I suppose it’s good for them, as well.

Curry: That’s great. So what I’m taking from that, the last few minutes there, is you’re still contributing; it’s good for you; it’s good for the younger folks that are around you; so everybody’s winning. It keeps you active; it keeps you bright; and you have the social engagement that you want.

Nam: That’s true. And it’s not just the university. For example, we’re sitting at a table here and you notice that there’s a lot of pieces of paper on there.

Curry: And a lot of books.

Nam: And a lot of books. And what that represents is that I’ve just completed a survey of residents at this retirement village that has to do with the extent to which they’ve experienced falling, maybe injuring themselves and maybe not, and what some of the factors were that may have contributed to it. And this is a study we’ve just collected all the survey forms and I’m doing the survey itself and the analysis and I’ll write a report, which is something that maybe I could have done in the university but now I’m doing outside of the university in my own retirement village. And I enjoy doing it.

Curry: Well, we were talking earlier. On one hand, you’ve retired from, quote, going to the office every day, but you haven’t really retired. You’re still doing the things you enjoy doing.

Nam: Cut back at my time, but not retired.

Curry: I like to ask people this question: What does retirement look like to you? What is your vision of retirement? And I keep three books on my bookcase facing out. One is Kirk Douglas’ book, Life Could Be Worse. We share the same birthday. December 9th he turned 100 and I was 64. And I have George Burns’ book, 100 Years, 100 Memories. He died at age 100, 100-plus. His birthday was in January; he died in March. And I have Betty White’s book. She’s 95. Now, Kirk Douglas is still productive even though he had a stroke. He’s still contributing. He’s still actively doing things.

I’m of the opinion from the reading that I do that the people that are happiest and clients that I see are happiest are the ones who are still doing things beyond retirement. The ones that are the most miserable, Charlie, are the ones who sit around all day long, watching the television, listening to the talking heads telling them how the world is coming to an end. They are not active; they’re not social; they’ve become recluses. They are the most miserable people that I engage with. They’re just not happy. The people that have friends, they’re socially involved, they’re dynamic, and it doesn’t matter if you’re 70 or if you’re 90 or like my client who’s 100. She’s still driving. She won’t drive at night, but she’s still driving during the day.

So it just blows my mind to see people that are in their thirties or forties that act like they have no energy, and then I’m around you and every time I see you I have to remind myself of your age because you look 20 years younger because you take care of yourself. Now, I know genetics applies in there somewhere, but you make the conscious choice to get up and go work out at the gym here every day. You make the choice of eating properly. So it’s not just genetics. You have to also modify your behavior and you’ve managed that.

Nam: And I think another important point as you think of the people that you deal with in your profession is that you don’t have to be regarded as successful. Your peers don’t have to regard you as successful in your work to carry on beyond. I think, you know, what is success is a fluid kind of concern, but you have to think about your health and your ability to live a long life. And being active in various ways is something anybody can do. You may have special interests that aren’t related to your work career at all. Some people are runners. Some people are walkers. Some people go to the gymnasium, Premier Health, to keep up their activity. Some people have all kinds of projects of their own that may not concern outsiders but engage their physical and mental health.

Curry: I agree with that. And over the years I have redefined what success means. When I was younger, I was chasing this rabbit. I’ve got to do this to please these people, do this to be viewed as successful. Now my definition of success is doing the things that I want to do with the people I want to do it with when I want to do it.

For me, Monday and Wednesday nights for two hours I do kickboxing for an hour and a style of Israeli fighting called haganah for an hour and I do it with my son. So we’re doing stuff together. So we have that bonding for a 64-year-old father and a 33-year-old son. We have the social interaction with the other people in the class and the instructor. We then talk about it so we’re doing it to learn from the standpoint of the physical fitness, but the mental development is there.

And our son was involved in a car accident four and a half years ago, had some head injuries, some brain damage, and to see what has happened, Charlie, with the physical and mental development because of being physically active, today he is totally functional. He can take care of himself. We were having trouble with his concentration and focus for a while, but he’s overcome that big time. He’s excited, he’s happy, he’s more fun to be around, and we’re doing these things together.

So it’s not just about work, work, work so I can get to some magic age and retire. It’s not that at all. I think we should build in retirement along the way. Take some time off, go do some things, take that Friday afternoon off and have a glass of wine and talk with a friend. Do the things you enjoy doing. I like taking long walks in the woods myself. I love that, an hour, two-hour walk, hiking with the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts. I enjoy that.

We need to close this in a moment here, but what would you say to the person that’s listening to this that says, “You know what? I don’t like my job. You’re lucky because you loved your job,” but the person who is sitting there going, “I don’t really like my job. I’m okay with it.” Or even the person who says, “I hate going to work every day.” Any thoughts for that person so that they could get better prepared for retirement and be able to walk out the door at some point and enjoy life?

Nam: Well, if you really don’t enjoy what you’re doing, you should look for other opportunities, I think. You know, the years I worked at the Census Bureau were rewarding in some ways but not in other ways, and that’s what led me to the university career. And so you have to be willing to make changes if the opportunities present themselves. But if a career is rewarding in enough ways, you may have to stick with it until retirement, but I think our economy is such that one can move from one sector to another pretty easily if you’ve got the training and the skills to make the move. But if you’re unhappy in a job, it’s better that you look at other opportunities.

Curry: I agree with that, and if you don’t have the training and the knowledge, it’s okay to start working on that. You can go to the library. You can go to the Internet nowadays. You can just sit at your house and read and study. I have to tell you. In my world I’m amazed at the number of people who do not take advantage of the opportunities to improve themselves. So it comes back to what you said earlier. You have to make the decision to improve. You have to make the decision to get on that subway at night and go back into town to take that class.

Nam: And it might not only be a question of formal education. It might be a question of taking a particular course in some subject that would give you additional skills in your job that would help you to advance in your profession.

Curry: Yes. I remember reading an interview you did with someone about your experience in World War II, and I seem to remember your parents never went to college. They worked in the business world.

Nam: My parents never got out of elementary school.

Curry: I’d forgotten that. So they did not get out of elementary school. So what do you think caused you to aspire, to pursue the education you have? I know you’re very low key. You don’t want to be called Dr. Nam, but you are a Ph.D. But you had some drive to pursue the B.S., the master’s, Ph.D. What do you think was the difference? What was the drive?

Nam: Well, at the time I was a child, not a lot of people went to college. It was still a… it was very different from today.

Curry: Yes.

Nam: And my parents who had elementary school education would like to have their children finish high school. That was their goal, get through high school. Today…

Curry: And then get a job?

Nam: That would be considered… yeah, and get a job. Today that would be considered ludicrous in a way because we think of college all the time as the ultimate goal. Well, my older sister, and I have a younger sister, as well, we all finished high school. My older sister went on and got a two-year college education, community college education, let’s say. So that kind of motivated me some. But to be honest, I really thought that if World War II hadn’t come along I would have finished high school and taken a job, maybe as a shoe salesman or something of the sort. And so the opportunity that came from the GI bill was important for me.

And another factor was that I had cousins, sons of an older sister of my mother’s, who went on to college and that was kind of an incentive for us to consider further education.

Curry: So, a bit of a role model.

Nam: Yeah.

Curry: Before we go, would you please share the story about how you ended up going to Harvard because of the Army program. You told me this on the Honor Flight, and I still chuckle about this. Would you share that?

Nam: Well, I finished high school and just two months after my 17th birthday and World War II was raging at the time, people were getting drafted. And I knew that in due time I would be subject to the draft, but I thought, well, I still had most of the year to go before I would get drafted, so I went and took a couple of courses of mechanical drafting at Delehanty Institute in New York, thinking that this would give me an opportunity to work in one of the defense industries, like, Grumman had a factory out in my area. And I took these two courses, but I couldn’t get the job because when I went for interviews they said, “Oh, you’re going to be drafted very soon. We can’t hire you.”

So I went down to an Army recruiting station just to get some information, and I said, “Look, you know, I’m not yet 18. I can’t get in the Army.” I could get in the Navy at 17 but I wasn’t interested in the Navy at the time, and they said, “Well, we could put you in the Army Reserve and when you’re 18 we would make you active.” And then they said, “But one other thing, we have a new program we just started nationally where we take 17-year-olds who score well on a test and put them in the university to get training that would be useful to the Army.” They said, “Would you be interested in taking a test?” Well, first they asked, “How were your grades in school?”

I said, “Fairly good.” And then the test, I said, “Sure, what have I got to lose?” I took the test and a few weeks later I got a letter from the Army saying please report to Harvard University for the fall term.

Curry: That’s funny.

Nam: And so in August of 1943 at age 18 I was starting my first year at Harvard. I was there for one year, two semesters, and the military situation in Europe got very bad and they stopped all those programs and put us into active duty. Eventually I got overseas. But I was in combat when I was still 18.

Curry: Wow. First of all, thank you for your service to our country. Thank you for being such a good friend and mentor and inspiration to me all these years. And, Dr. Charles Nam, thank you for taking the time today. I appreciate you so much.

Nam: Thank you.

Curry: Thank you.


If you'd like to know more about John Curry's services, you can request a complimentary information package by visiting johnhcurry.com/podcast. Again, that is johnhcurry.com/podcast. Or you can call his office at 850-562-3000. Again, that is 850-562-3000. John H. Curry chartered life underwriter, chartered financial consultant, accredited estate planner, masters in science and financial services, certified in long-term care, registered representative and financial advisor at Park Avenue Securities LLC.
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